For a generation of Apple watchers, the question is both nostalgic and unsettling: can any future CEO make products that feel as inevitable as the original iPhone? The answer may hinge on something as intangible as corporate culture.
Matthew Rogers remembers a different Apple. He was an engineer in his early twenties, fresh out of college, working on what would become the iPhone. But in those early days, the team was experimenting with a clunky derivative — a click-wheel iPhone that looked like an iPod Nano. It wasn’t working.
“I was 23, 24 years old, and I interacted with Steve Jobs. That’s crazy, right? But that’s the organization he ran,” Rogers told Fortune from his Silicon Valley office, where he now runs the food-recycling startup Mill.
The flat hierarchy that made the iPhone possible
What made Apple special during the Jobs era, Rogers explained, was its flat hierarchy. Jobs deliberately surrounded himself with product leaders who were consumer-obsessed and expected to argue with him. The mandate was not hierarchy — it was perfection. The click wheel was abandoned because Jobs “aimed for something close to perfection.”
That culture is now a memory. Under Tim Cook, Apple has become the world’s most valuable company by revenue and operational efficiency. Supply chains, services revenue, and the ecosystem of half a billion users are Cook’s legacy. But product risk-taking has arguably declined. The Apple Vision Pro, for instance, is a technical marvel but a market question mark. No new product category has matched iPhone-level magic since 2007.
Why the next CEO must look backward to move forward
The incoming CEO will face a fundamental tension. Cook’s discipline gave investors 14 years of consistent growth. But the product culture that creates industry-defining hardware — where a 23-year-old can walk into a CEO’s office and debate a design decision — has been replaced by a more corporate structure.
Rogers’ anecdote captures the intangible: Jobs created a company where hierarchy didn’t block feedback. That allowed the iPhone to evolve from a click-wheel mistake into a multitouch revolution. The question now is whether any successor can recreate that psychological safety for product dissent.
Who could be Apple’s next CEO?
Apple has not publicly named a successor. But internal candidates often discussed include Jeff Williams (COO), John Ternus (head of hardware engineering), and Craig Federighi (software). None have Jobs’ product autocracy or Cook’s operational reputation. Each would bring a different balance.
Analysts argue that the real challenge is not the individual but the system. Even a brilliant product leader would struggle to impose a flat culture on a company of 160,000 employees. The Jobs era’s scrappiness was a function of size. Apple is no longer a startup.
What a product-driven CEO could mean for Apple users
For consumers, the stakes are simple: better products, more risk, more delight. A CEO who prioritises design over margins might greenlight a foldable iPhone, a true AR glasses breakthrough, or a radical new interface. But that same CEO might also miss quarterly targets, spooking Wall Street.
Rogers’ own journey from Apple engineer to startup founder reflects the change: he left Apple to build a company where he can again have direct debates. “That’s the organization he ran,” he said of Jobs. “That’s crazy, right?” The line is wistful, not boastful.
Can the mojo be institutionalised?
Some argue that Apple’s design mojo is not entirely lost. The A-series and M-series chips are industry-leading. The iPhone remains the dominant premium smartphone. The services ecosystem is a cash machine. But product mojo is about more than performance — it’s about surprise, about changing behaviour, about making technology feel human.
The click-wheel iPhone story is instructive. Jobs rejected it not because it was technically bad, but because it wasn’t good enough. That refusal to settle for “good enough” is the mojo. Building it into a succession plan is the hardest task the Apple board faces.
Confirmed facts vs what remains unclear
Confirmed: Matthew Rogers was an early iPhone engineer who interacted directly with Steve Jobs. The original iPhone was prototyped as an iPod Nano derivative with a click wheel. Jobs rejected it for not being good enough. Rogers runs Mill (a food-recycling startup).
Unclear: Who exactly will succeed Tim Cook. Whether the board is actively seeking a product visionary versus an operator. Whether a new CEO can realistically flatten Apple’s hierarchy. No internal company statements on succession exists beyond public speculation.
Risks and balanced view
Critics caution that romanticising the Jobs era ignores his flaws: abrasive management, product mistakes (MobileMe, the original iPad’s limited software), and a cult of personality that is unsustainable in a modern publicly traded company. A design-obsessed CEO might also neglect services, regulatory risk, and supply chain — areas where Cook excelled. There is no guarantee that a product-focused CEO would replicate Jobs’ instincts, and every CEO operates under different market conditions.
Wider trend: the challenge of second acts in tech
Apple is not alone. Microsoft found a new gear under Satya Nadella, but that was a cultural reinvention, not a product mojo revival. Google struggles to replicate its early search-era innovation. The pattern suggests that as tech companies mature, they optimise for efficiency over invention. Apple’s succession drama is a case study of that universal tension.
What should investors and Apple fans watch for?
Watch the board’s choice. If the next CEO comes from hardware engineering (Ternus) or is an outsider with a product track record, it signals a pivot toward design. If the choice is a trusted lieutenant with operational background (Williams), expect more of the same. Also watch how Apple treats its design studio autonomy — any restructuring of the Jony Ive successor team will be a clue.
Future outlook
Most analysts expect Apple to name a successor within the next 18–24 months. The new CEO will inherit a company with unmatched cash reserves and a loyal user base. The product risk will be whether they can launch a new category as defining as the iPhone. Without the flat hierarchy Rogers remembers, that seems unlikely. But Apple has surprised before.
Our Take
Matthew Rogers’ anecdote is a small window into a big problem. Apple’s next CEO cannot simply be a lesser version of Steve Jobs — that would fail. They need to restore the conditions under which product debates can happen without bureaucracy. That means flattening the org chart, rewarding dissent, and being willing to kill a good product in pursuit of a great one. No amount of services revenue can replace that mojo. The iPhone’s click-wheel prototype is a reminder: great products are born from arguments, not from decks.
Frequently Asked Questions
Will Apple’s next CEO be a product visionary like Steve Jobs?
Not necessarily. Apple values operational continuity, and the board may prioritise stability over vision. However, the product visionary model is what created the iPhone. The next CEO’s background will signal the direction.
What did Matthew Rogers say about Apple’s culture under Jobs?
Rogers told Fortune that Jobs ran a flat hierarchy where even a 23-year-old engineer could directly debate product ideas with him. That culture of argument and perfection was key to the iPhone’s success.
Can Apple ever be as innovative as it was in the Jobs era?
Possibly, but innovation in a large company requires deliberate structural support. The flat hierarchy that enabled the iPhone is hard to replicate at 160,000 employees. New leadership could revive it, but it would be a multi-year cultural transformation.
What happened to the original iPhone prototypes?
The first prototypes were based on the iPod Nano with a click wheel. Steve Jobs rejected it because it wasn’t close to perfection. The team then shifted to a multitouch interface, which became the breakthrough product.
